English

[littlest-bee]

I work for a magazine publishing company and I'm fascinated with language - how it’s used (and abused!) and how it varies from place to place. I speak and write British English but like a lot of people in the UK I understand and often use Americanisms – partly because I spend so much time online talking to Americans. Obviously there’s differences too with Canadian English (does that even exist?!) and Australian English and New Zealand English and so on…

Anyway, the reason for this long ramble is that this morning I was given a Style Guide to help me edit out common mistakes in the magazine and there was a huge list of words that have different meanings. Lots of them were new to me like corn syrup (US) instead of golden syrup (UK) – personally I think golden syrup sounds yummier! Some made me laugh too: I always think “ladyfingers” sound a bit perverted (in the UK its finger biscuits which isn’t much better I suppose) and girls have bangs rather than a fringe which makes me giggle.

What other words are there (not just US ones) out there that have different meanings? My inner language geek wants to know! Please play!

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

The British meaning of 'shag' was completely foreign to me until the Austin Powers movies. There's another one... what is it... snog? That's more like "make out," right?

Biscuits instead of cookies always throws me. And crisps instead of chips, and chips instead of fries. (I agree, Rosie, that Lady Fingers is obscene-sounding!)

[medeous]

and scones instead of biscuits.

when i was very young, we lived in australia for a while. i remember my parents taking a class on how to speak/understand australian english. i wet my pants the first day of school because the teacher asked if anyone needed to go to the loo, but i just wanted to go to the bathroom. :huh:

[nuKKe]

The oddest is the 2 literally opposite meanings of 'fanny'.
Enough said.

[littlest-bee]

Originally posted by nuKKe@Nov 20 2003, 01:15 PM
The oddest is the 2 literally opposite meanings of 'fanny'.

That always makes me smirk! "Fanny pack" - ha ha!

(yes I am actually six years old!)

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Oh geez, I didn't even know about the Fanny thing!

"Pudding" always confuses me. Does that just mean dessert or what? Because I think of actual pudding, and I laugh at how obsessed the English are with pudding.

[littlest-bee]

Pudding (or pud) can be used as a word for dessert (so can "afters"!) or a stodgy/cakey type sweet like treacle pudding or spotted dick (smirk smirk smirk!)

[Cuilanië]

Originally posted by nuKKe@Nov 20 2003, 02:15 PM
The oddest is the 2 literally opposite meanings of 'fanny'.
Enough said.
This exact opposition exists also between French from France, and Québécois French. It can lead to some hilarious misconceptions...

Also to be noted, for French, the different meanings of the word "gosses". In France, it means kids. But in Québec, if you ever mention "les gosses de ma soeur" (my sister's kids, or any female relative, really), you will get a very strange look, indeed... *smirk*

[I can't seem to type right today...]

[sarahkate]

I love discussions about differences in language. I'm such a dork!


That crisps/chips - chips/fries thing always confuses me too!

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

That crisps/chips - chips/fries thing always confuses me too!

That's because you're obsessed with potatoes!

[sarahkate]

Originally posted by girl-who-loves-sharks@Nov 20 2003, 09:38 AM
That crisps/chips - chips/fries thing always confuses me too!

That's because you're obsessed with potatoes!
Heh! Very true! I must get my facts straight before I ever make a trip to the UK! I would be very upset if I accidentally asked for some crips when I really wanted chips! I'm a much bigger fan of french fries than potato chips.

[cindi1023]

I don't have anything to add that specifically relates to your topic (because I know ZERO about Brittish English), but it reminded me about a story....

I remember the first day of French class my freshman year of high school, our teacher, Madame Porto started the class off by writing several words on the chalkboard...

Plough
Dough
Cough
Rough

and several others I can't remember (all ending in "ough"). She then turned to us, read us the words, clearly emphasizing that they are spelled very similarly but pronounced much differently, then ended by saying "I don't EVER want to hear you say that French is "stupid"."

[Cuilanië]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That is GOOD! :D

[hainlam]

hee hee.. how funny.

there are dissimilarities within the US that always crack me up.. like toboggan
in the North it is a sled and in the South it is a hat.. how that is possible, I have no idea.

[littlest-bee]

We get that it Britain too - there's loads of examples but here's one that always makes me smile (why is it always the rude ones that come to mind?!):

In most of Britain the word "nosh" is slang for "food" whereas in Sheffield in the north of England (which is where I'm originally from) it means something a lot lot ruder! In fact if anyone successfully guesses what it means in Sheffield then 1) you have a grubby mind and 2) I'll send you a prize!

[Katiekat]

My German teacher once showed us something similar to Cindi's story, and I want to see if any of you can guess it. How do you pronounce this word:

Ghoti

Any guesses? :huh:

[mechanical_cat]

I love how almost every town has a different word for - I don't know what to call them so that everyone will know who I mean - the sort of lads that hang around town in sports stuff and are rude to everone that walks by them. Where I'm originally from they're called chavvies but just from moving round England I've found they're also called pykies, townies, scallies and most bizarrely Garries and Sharons!

[sarahkate]

I would probably guess it was pronounced like "goat tee"

that's probably wrong though.

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Ghoti

Any guesses?

I DO know the answer.
I will give a hint:
A shark is a ghoti.

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Oh, UK people (and others in-the-know):

What the heck is a "wally"?

[Christine_0701]

another one is banger and suasage...
tobbogan and sled is a biggy
couch and chesterfield
touque and hat
eh and hey (lol)
soda and pop
ummm...can't think of anymore right now, but I know there's lots of differences between american and canadians lol

[stargal1998]

Oh, yeah, I remember this one...
It is a Fish, right???

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Oh, yeah, I remember this one...
It is a Fish, right???

Yeah!

gh makes the f sound in "rough"
o makes the short i sound in "women"
ti makes the sh sound in "nation"

[littlest-bee]

Originally posted by mechanical_cat@Nov 20 2003, 03:27 PM
the sort of lads that hang around town in sports stuff and are rude to everyone that walks by them
I know charvers, scallies and townies but just recently heard someone describe them as "Kevs & Sharons"!

Heather, a "wally" is an idiot, a silly person. Its kind of affectionate rather than an insult.

[Mermaid]

I think I have a copy somewhere still of:

Tough Coughs as He Ploughs the Dough: Early Writings and Cartoons by Dr. Seuss
Richard Marschall

Hardcover, November 1986

[Cuilanië]

Posted a while back by hammerquill...

English is Tough Stuff (http://nervousness.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5990&st=30&#entry82311)

[gwensmom]

British english/american english

Redundancy = layoffs/downsizing
nappy = diaper
lorry = truck
moving house = moving
in hospital = in the hospital
organise, criticise = organize,criticize

[Dalmaney]

Not only is there Canadian English, but it's a big enough country that there are localized words that other Canadians won't get. The most famous from Saskatchewan: bunnyhug. It's a hooded sweatshirt, and only people from Saskatchewan call it a bunnyhug.

There were a bunch of words and phrases with Canadian roots I learned in like elementary school... I don't remember many. "Hat trick", I think. And coulee (a dry riverbed or gully), which I just learned has French Canadian roots.

I'm pretty good at figuring out Scottish and South African English... I'm the interpreter for my South African friend. She's pretty much settled in here, but she still uses the odd phrase that people just don't get.

[gwensmom]

Nyphette said bunnyhug once for hooded sweatshirt and I thought it was a fabulous name for such a thing.

[nuKKe]

Originally posted by littlest-bee@Nov 20 2003, 03:17 PM
In most of Britain the word "nosh" is slang for "food" whereas in Sheffield in the north of England (which is where I'm originally from) it means something a lot lot ruder! In fact if anyone successfully guesses what it means in Sheffield then 1) you have a grubby mind and 2) I'll send you a prize!
EEk! I used to live not far away from Sheffild (gotta love the steel bull!) but I have no idea....

Another dodgy difference: bird (Liverpoolian?) and hen (Glaswegian??).
I don't like these nouns/adjectives...

[Ishba]

Originally posted by littlest-bee@Nov 20 2003, 10:17 AM
We get that it Britain too - there's loads of examples but here's one that always makes me smile (why is it always the rude ones that come to mind?!):

In most of Britain the word "nosh" is slang for "food" whereas in Sheffield in the north of England (which is where I'm originally from) it means something a lot lot ruder! In fact if anyone successfully guesses what it means in Sheffield then 1) you have a grubby mind and 2) I'll send you a prize!
hehe... I have no idea, but it sounds like another term for oral sex :P
and yes, I do have a grubby mind.

funny how terms for food always have some alternative filthy meaning...

[Death_Or_Aldona]

hehe... I have no idea, but it sounds like another term for oral sex
:) That was my guess too.

[littlest-bee]

Insipid & Death_or_Aldona - you are correct! Its specifically oral sex on a man. I promised a prize to the person who guessed so if you pm me you addresses I'll send you a little something each (not related to noshing though! ;) )

[Christine_0701]

I just got an "you know you're a canadian" e-mail...here;s one of them:

You understand the phrase "Could you pass me a serviette, I just dropped my pouine, on the chesterfield." meaning "could you pass me a napkin? i just dropped my mixture of fries, gravy, and chees on the couch hehehe

[Katiekat]

Originally posted by girl-who-loves-sharks@Nov 20 2003, 04:01 PM
Oh, yeah, I remember this one...
It is a Fish, right???

Yeah!

gh makes the f sound in "rough"
o makes the short i sound in "women"
ti makes the sh sound in "nation"
Thanks for steppin in for me there, GWLS!

[snarkoutgirl]

I always liked "boot" for the trunk of a car. :P

And "torch" for flashlight. Sounds medieval. :D

[insomnolicious]

And then there are all the names for a toilet.
My mom wanted to write a book called, "Loo and John are the same person"
the bathroom, the restroom, the w.c., etc.

Just in the U.S. anyways, the pop/soda/coke argument that gets people yelling.

In Wisconsin, USA, they call drinking fountains "bubblers"

While in Europe, I travelled a bit with some Australians, Kiwis, and Brits and one thing that I had to get used to was "standing in a queue" rather than "waiting in line". and lifts rather than elevators.

also, umbrella/bumbershoot

[Christine_0701]

Originally posted by snarkoutgirl@Nov 22 2003, 12:10 PM
I always liked "boot" for the trunk of a car. :P

tyhat reminds me...in garde 10 english, we got a list of car parts, but in britain-english...and we had to guess what they were. it was funny

wing for a fender, and stuff

[snarkoutgirl]

I also like alternate spellings, like "tyre" for tire and "kerb" for curb. But I got that information from a historical mystery series, so maybe they're not spelled like that anymore. :P

[sub]

Snarkoutgirl
they certainly are spelled like that still! We have both kerb - the edge of the pavement (or sidewalk) - and curb - as in restrain. And we have tyres on a car but we tire of eating chocolate at Xmas (yeah right).

[hammerquill]

I loved observing all these things while/whilst I was living in England for a year.

English (as opposed to American) has so many more degrees of mild obscenity available. In American, you tend to have to be polite and drawing-room fashion (to use an un-American phrase) or else downright offensive to traditional tastes. There's far too little middle ground. British English has many stages in between, which make casual, bantering insults less nasty (but therefore more common). "Shag" may be considered coarse, and wouldn't be used in polite company, but it's a big step below the two alternatives in American, in terms of offensiveness and shock value. British English uses the most offensive terms and expletives and exclamations, too, but it has all these others for varying degrees of offense or informality or emphasis. You can find things like this everywhere, from the nearly-as-offensive "sod" and "bugger" to the less extreme "bollocks" to the positively quaint "bloody" etc. USAmericans recognize almost all of these terms nowadays, and a few are catching on here, because all USAmericans are secret Anglophiles, but most just aren't used here.

British English also, appropriately enough given the pub culture, has a lot more words for being drunk. I always assumed "squiffy" and the like were not likely to be found outside the pages of P.G. Wodehouse, but I heard them in use. "Pissed," one of the most common terms for serious drunkenness, doesn't mean that in the U.S. (though again, it's beginning to be understood): here it is short for "pissed off," that is, angry.

Another one I couldn't believe when I heard it used: "Wotcher" - I assumed that had gone out of use in about 1860.

I made people in a class I was in there uncomfortable (though they knew what I meant) by referring to full stops as periods.

I like a lot of British spellings, too. The -re/-er business is difficult, because the American -er spellings make more sense, but I actually like -re more in a lot of cases. In the US, "Theatre" is spelled both ways, and there may be other examples, but for instance, I always want to write "centre" because it just looks better. I really like the word "tyre" to differentiate it from the verb. [aside: a tire/tyre company finances some programs on my local public radio station, and gets brief advertising spots, during which they announce their toll-free (i.e. freephone) number, whose ambiguity I'm sure the Brits here will appreciate: 1-800-TIRES-FAST :lol: :rolleyes: ] OTOH, I'm fascinated by, but detest, the spelling "gaol" for "jail."

A subtler thing: my use of the word "store" for the generic term for a place of commercial business was seen as strange: it was explained to me that that term connoted larger things, like supermarkets, and "shop" was not only the proper term for smaller places - antiquarian book shops for instance - but was also the general term, embracing large and small businesses and premises. In the US you can call smaller stores shops if you want; in the UK you can call larger shops stores.

One that totally threw me, along the lines of "torch" meaning "electric torch" or flashlight (though I knew that one quite well) was "electric fire." To me, that means "electrical fire": a fire caused by electricity - a potential disaster. But no, in the UK that means an electric-powered space heater.

I was also surprised by the fact that it is not assumed that everyone has a telephone, and this led to another odd term coming to light. When phoning on business the person you're phoning (not calling - that's still ambiguous in the UK, and might mean stopping by), instead of asking for your phone number will ask if you're on the phone. <_< Well, of course I'm on the phone, I'm on the phone with you, is what I wanted to answer the first few times I heard this. They mean, do you have a telephone number at which you can be reached.

"Stop" for "stay" in some contexts. "Will you be stopping long?"

Some areas of Britain still use "while" to mean "until," which can be really confusing. Of course, "whilst" is used much or most of the time when USAmericans would say "while" (and "whilst" is one of the words we find funniest in British vocabulary).

I think I could probably go on... Oxford declared American to be a different language from English some years back, and they were right.

[mechanical_cat]

Originally posted by christine_0701@Nov 22 2003, 04:18 PM

wing for a fender, and stuff
:lol: I always thought fender was the bumper, cos of people saying fender-bender, it just seemed to make sense to me that way. Heh now i feel silly :lol:

[Seusomon]

I lived in England for two years, and accumulated quite an awareness of many of the differences. I'll have to try to bring some more of them to mind for posting here.

There's a classic I'm surprised no one has mentioned here yet. An American fellows takes an interest in a British girl and decides to ask her out on a date. She accepts and tells him, "just come knock me up around 8 o'clock"....

[Christine_0701]

Originally posted by Seusomon@Nov 24 2003, 08:16 AM
She accepts and tells him, "just come knock me up around 8 o'clock"....
lol!! that is quite the difference ;)

[Seusomon]

In the US, you'd say "It's on such-and-such street". In the UK, "it's
in such-and-such street". And the streets have tops and bottoms there, instead of ends.

In the UK, people go on holiday during a vacation. In the US, they go on vacation during a holiday.

In the UK, "Tea" can meaning an bewildering range of times, meals, or gatherings.

In the US, saying you're sick just means you're not feeling well enough to go to work or school for some reason - cold, flu, headache. In the UK, it implies that you're vomitting.

As an American, I was amused by what I thought of as "French euphemisms" for vegetables: courgettes, aubergines...

[gwensmom]

I liked "chemist" for "drug store".

[Seusomon]

;)

I like it even more in full: "dispensing chemist"!

[mechanical_cat]

Originally posted by Seusomon@Nov 24 2003, 12:39 PM
As an American, I was amused by what I thought of as "French euphemisms" for vegetables: courgettes, aubergines...
Ok what do you call a courgette? Is it a zucchini, cos I've always wondered what that was. Or have i just made my self sound even more stupid..... >_<

[Seusomon]

yes, zucchini.

(which of course is just an Italian euphemism)

;)

But we also use the word "squash" indiscriminately for this and all its relations.

[nymphette]

i'm bumping this up from the evil depths of the abyss because it made me giggle and i want everyone to rack their brains for more silly words!!!!

[kittymao]

I'd love to help, but I'm an american.
Uhm.
So.

[gwensmom]

ok. Brits write "whinge" and Americans write "whine". Are these pronounced the same way? When I see "whinge" I want to pronounce it "whinj" like "hinge". But that can't be right.

[Death_Or_Aldona]

Originally posted by kittymao@Jan 12 2004, 09:25 PM
I'd love to help, but I'm an american.

:rolleyes:

I find that phrase very amusing....

[kittymao]

hUH. It is kind of amusing.
oops.

maybe I should think before I type things.

[littlest-bee]

"Whinge" does rhyme with "hinge" whereas "whine" is pronounced (in Britain anyway) the same as "wine"!

[gwensmom]

So do whinge and whine mean the same thing?

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Originally posted by gwensmom@Jan 13 2004, 10:20 AM
So do whinge and whine mean the same thing?
I have seen "whinge and whine" as a phrase, as in, "Arabella was whinging and whining about the weather all morning."

[littlest-bee]

Oops, yes, they mean the same thing.

[mysundown15]

Simple ones like herb in the US said with the H and herb in the UK said without the H (urb). When I hear trolley, I think of a trolley car... like in SF. But, In the UK it's a cart, like one at a supermarket. Apparently that one isn't used everywhere either, it depends on what region of the Uk.

Umm... fag, enough said.

Some words don't have the same reaction either. If you say cunt in the US, chances are the room will go silent and you'll get quite a few people annoyed with you. Say it in the UK and it's not as big of a deal.

[mysundown15]

Some more.

Camp is sort of the British equivilent of flaming. Camp in the states is more often used as kitschy.

Babies sleep in cots, not cribs... hard to imagine anyone sleeping in a cot.

Soccer in the US = football everywhere else

Underware in the US = pants in the UK

Pants in the US = trousers in the UK

thrashman/garbageman = dustman

and one that really caused me some confusion with British friends "public schools" aren't, erm, public. they're private, you need to pay tuition. free schools have another name.

[gwensmom]

Originally posted by littlest-bee@Jan 13 2004, 02:17 AM
"Whinge" does rhyme with "hinge" whereas "whine" is pronounced (in Britain anyway) the same as "wine"!
I am going to add "whinge" to my vocabulary.

Littlest-bee- Is whinging more or less intense than whining or are they equally annoying?

[littlest-bee]

Originally posted by gwensmom@Jan 14 2004, 03:03 PM
Littlest-bee-  Is whinging more or less intense than whining or are they equally annoying?
We're getting down to the really nitty-gritty differences now!

In my opinion, you have a whinge (used as a noun) but a person (or their voice) is whiney (as an adjective) but they are both used the other way too. You get whiney children and it generally implies a more high-pitched, irritating way of speaking. On the other hand you might "have a good whinge" and then feel lots better. It is less intense, if you like! Does that help?!

[gwensmom]

Yes, thank you! I have a British friend and I am required to learn British things and report them to him.

The last thing I did was try a Christmas pudding. He sent me one from Fortnum & Mason and it was very yummy.

[littlest-bee]

I see - well if I can help anymore, just shout!

Fortnum & Mason - trés posh!

[Seusomon]

Originally posted by mysundown15@Jan 14 2004, 02:57 AM
Simple ones like herb in the US said with the H and herb in the UK said without the H (urb).

I was born and raised in the US, and always pronounced 'herb' with a silent 'h'. Always regarded sounding the h as just plain wrong (maybe coming from seeing the word in print before hearing people speak it).

[Christine_0701]

Originally posted by Seusomon+Jan 15 2004, 08:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Seusomon @ Jan 15 2004, 08:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-mysundown15@Jan 14 2004, 02:57 AM
Simple ones like herb in the US said with the H and herb in the UK said without the H (urb).

I was born and raised in the US, and always pronounced 'herb' with a silent 'h'. Always regarded sounding the h as just plain wrong (maybe coming from seeing the word in print before hearing people speak it). [/b][/quote]

i'm like that too.....heh it really annoys me when ppl mispronounce things...especially place names

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Yes... in fact, the only person I have heard pronounce the H in Herb IS British: Jamie Oliver.

[sub]

Er, so far as I know in Britain we always pronounce the 'h' in herb. Mosts Brits would regard saying 'erb as either v lower class (general thing of not pronouncing initial 'h') or French and therefore a bit poncey, depending on exactly how it's said. Weird but true.
Su

[girl-who-loves-sharks]

Originally posted by sub@Jan 15 2004, 01:15 PM
Er, so far as I know in Britain we always pronounce the 'h' in herb. Mosts Brits would regard saying 'erb as either v lower class (general thing of not pronouncing initial 'h') or French and therefore a bit poncey, depending on exactly how it's said. Weird but true.
Su
:lol:
I never heard the word "poncey" before!

[sub]

'poncey' means ... hmmm it's tricky to describe ... a bit pretentious, precious, fancy, but actually at the same time a bit naff.
Any other Brits got a better description?
Su

[MelangeArtiste]

And then there are trousers and pants. In the US, just about everyone refers to trousers as pants. And therefore you to refer to pants as underpants to make the distinction.

melanie